logoalt Hacker News

ceejayoztoday at 2:23 AM1 replyview on HN

The United States is made up of… states. The United States also posesses some territories, which are not states. This is why Puerto Ricans got their citizenship by statue in 1917, rather than via the Fourteenth Amendment.

> American Samoa was included and considered in the United States and "subject to the jurisdiction" as recently as 2019…

No, it wasn't. That case was overturned on appeal. It remains under US jurisdiction; its people remain nationals, not citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitisemanu_v._United_States

> The United States appealed and in a 2–1 decision the United States Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit reversed the district court decision with Judge Bacharach dissenting. The court cited one of the Insular Cases, Downes v. Bidwell, as a Supreme Court Precedent not to affirm the lower court's decision. The Court of Appeals also denied an en banc hearing, over the dissent of Judges Bacharach and Moritz.

> A petition for writ of certiorari was filed in the United States Supreme Court on April 27 and was discussed in their conference on October 14, 2022 and decided to deny certiorari on October 17, 2022.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Downes_v._Bidwell

> The decision narrowly held that the Constitution does not necessarily apply to territories. Instead, the US Congress has jurisdiction to create law within territories in certain circumstances, particularly those dealing with revenue, which would not be allowed by the Constitution for US states.


Replies

throwawaypathtoday at 3:01 AM

>The United States is made up of… states.

And territories, minor outlying islands, and a federal district.

>No, it wasn't.

Yes it was, the opinion of the court held that those born in American Samoa were born in the United States.:

>“Plaintiffs, having been born in the United States, and owing allegiance to the United States, are citizens by virtue of the Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment,” Waddoups added.

It was eventually overturned, but the fact is a court's decision included American Samoa as "in the United States."

The point is courts can decide what is considered "under the jurisdiction there of" much as there can decide what is considered "in the United States." All it takes is another case to completely throw out the Insular Cases.

>In United States v. Vaello Madero, No. 20-303, 596 U.S. ___ (2022), Justice Neil Gorsuch concurred and noted that "The Insular Cases have no foundation in the Constitution and rest instead on racial stereotypes. They deserve no place in our law."[32] Gorsuch argues that the Court must find a case to overrule the Insular Cases which were "based on racist assumptions and imperial ambitions."