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cloudie78yesterday at 4:07 PM6 repliesview on HN

We can’t define or measure consciousness - because we haven’t discovered how.

So, we can’t define or measure it, but we can create it?

How do you create that which is not definable or measurable?


Replies

thanszyesterday at 4:17 PM

Not thoroughly understanding consciousness doesn't mean we can't create it. All sorts of phenomena are created without an understanding of the underlying mechanism. The entire animal kingdom, including us humans, have been creating conscious beings (babies) without understanding how consciousness actually works.

Of course, understanding the mechanism is helpful if you want control, reliability, and precision over the phenomena, but creation can definitely happen before we can explain it.

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vitally3643yesterday at 4:18 PM

> How do you create that which is not definable or measurable?

Through engineering.

This isn't new by any stretch of the imagination. Throughout our entire history as a species, we've been building things long, long before we had the tools to understand them. We built bridges and massive cathedrals before we invented geometry. We built and optimized steam engines for a century before we developed the language of fluid dynamics to understand why those designs were optimal.

Engineering very frequently is far ahead of the science needed to explain it.

As far as consciousness goes, personally I think it's an emergent property that will arise on its own when conditions are right. It will take a lot of experimentation to establish the right conditions, and then generations of study to figure out why those conditions were ideal for consciousness to emerge.

Because realistically we can't learn about consciousness with a sample size of one (us). We need to study other consciousnesses to understand the why and hows.

visargayesterday at 4:29 PM

> How do you create that which is not definable or measurable?

animals can have offspring without understanding reproduction

Tenokeyesterday at 4:43 PM

We can create many things without being able to define them. From embryos to fire.

hackingonemptyyesterday at 4:28 PM

Consciousness is what the brain is doing.

I look forward to more precise definitions.

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empath75yesterday at 4:49 PM

People made fire for thousands of years before they understood what it was.