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jrm4yesterday at 5:01 PM9 repliesview on HN

The important question is:

So what?

Genuinely. I get that there may be some visceral reaction against this, but when I break it down, I mostly fail to see the problem. Seems like what is actually important is:

Compared to before, when a human reads it, do they -- or society -- get something good out of it? Is it worth it to add this to the "pantheon?"

If that's not what's happening enough, and if this doesn't describe the process -- then the problem lies elsewhere, no?


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probably_wrongyesterday at 5:25 PM

I recently desk-rejected a paper where every single citation in its Introduction was hallucinated. That means that the entire connection between what the author(s) did and how it relates to existing research was simply made up. I've never seen this happening before AI but now there's at least one paper in every cycle pulling something similar.

My problem therefore is: we are seeing more and more papers written with tools that are known to make up facts, citations, and even entire papers. And the number of papers has increased, too. I therefore see it less as "people are being more productive" and more "people are releasing bad science much faster than we can keep up with".

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dopamine_daddyyesterday at 5:08 PM

Surprisingly I agree with you. My opinion is: if it makes communicating research more effective, while not reducing the quality of the output substantially, I see no issue.

A possible conclusion for this could be: If the majority of CS papers is AI written, let's just accept this reality universally and stop worrying about it altogether.

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jerfyesterday at 5:25 PM

If a human writes a given paragraph, I know it has attained a minimum level of awareness in some human mind at some point. If an AI writes a paper, I have no guarantee that it has reached that minimum. We also fear, with some reason, a correlation between AI writing and possibly being hallucinated or non-existent. Not just because AI is bad and people should feel bad for using them, but because given that a paper is somehow fake, it is probably more likely to be made with AI, and running that backwards it is reasonable to take closer looks at AI papers.

If fake papers weren't already a big problem before AI and the fields had already been policing themselves adequately, if this was already a functioning high-trust domain, maybe we could ignore this a bit more, but the fields already manifestly had problems. People taking advantage of that are reasonably more likely to use AI. The pressures to publish or perish provide the voltage and the AIs are a rather convenient path-to-ground.

I agree in some sense that if a truth is published, it doesn't matter if the AI or a human published it. However there are perfectly reasonable reasons to be concerned that AI usage is correlated to not publishing truths, especially in a world where merely being human-generated was already not an adequate check against that.

mrobyesterday at 5:18 PM

Even if you can reject the aesthetic argument for non-fiction works (although read some of Dijkstra's papers for a good counterargument), it is still a problem because it breaks an important quality signalling mechanism.

Pre-LLMs, a paper with no spelling or grammar errors showed that somebody had put effort into writing and editing it. If they cared about the presentation, they probably also cared about the content. LLMs routinely produce nonsense that looks superficially like high-quality work.

There are far too many papers to read all of them. LLM slop is evidence that something is probably low quality. As the saying goes, "if you can't be bothered writing it, I can't be bothered reading." The rare outliers will get enough citations and recommendations to overcome this filter.

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zulbanyesterday at 5:27 PM

Indeed. We'd likely find a similar pattern if we count spelling mistakes before and after autocorrect.

amram_artyesterday at 5:16 PM

you just dont respect your readers, thats all

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verdvermyesterday at 5:42 PM

Another important questions is:

What about the papers that graduate to proper publication?

Arxiv is full of pre-prints that anyone can upload.

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economistbobyesterday at 5:06 PM

The problem is that humans start with credulity. AI hallucinates and makes up stuff some percentage of the time. Humans are not "default deny" when given information. Unleashing that was a disservice to mankind and has created a future filled with lies and people who are confident in them.

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fwipyesterday at 5:38 PM

LLM-written text tends to have the property that it gives the impression of expertise and knowledge in excess of what the text actually contains.

In other words, it "sounds smart" without necessarily having anything to back it up. In even more critical terms, it's very good at bullshitting.

Unfortunately for us, the scientific community current relies on a certain amount of trust. (To do otherwise is very expensive! see: bitcoin). When you introduce a known-bullshitter to write your papers, every human in the loop effectively has to defend against an adversarial attack. Not just the readers at home, or the peer reviewers, but even the author needs to be wary that the facts and arguments coming out of the LLM are true and meaningful.

Personally, I've been a minor contributor to several high-profile papers. I don't know how every field does it, but in my experience, the corresponding author (generally the PI or other senior scientist), is responsible for the accuracy of the paper. They ultimately have to trust the people who did the work that the facts are true. Introducing LLMs into the mix make it more difficult for them to identify and review sections they are unsure of. (An honest person will typically write at a confidence level reflecting their certainty. LLMs do not do this in any reliable way.)

I've also found that LLMs frequently use metaphors that are unhelpful, or used out of context in a field that isn't familiar with them. This makes understanding the text more work, for no good reason. Introducing terms or definitions with low relevance reads as impressive at first glance, but avoiding the standard terminology in the field just adds confusion. (As an analogy, imagine if you were reading a CS paper that, for no particular reason, devoted a section to a new data structure called an "akimbo tree," which after much untangling, you realized was a reinvention of a randomized splay tree.)

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