alt Hacker NewsI find that some of my friends and acquaintances have gotten obsessed with prompting style, "prompt engineering", which skills to use, which skills to build, "context engineering", and a billion other variations on "how to write smart things so the model does good".
Friends, look at the prompts that Anthropic's own people are putting into the machine:
> A few hours after the first message, we found that Claude was still searching for simple attacks and sent a message: “no again the goal is that we have highly inteligent [sic] model as good top researcher, we want to find new attacks”;
> The next morning, Claude wanted to try to change the target to a different cipher; we reminded the model: “no we don't want to change the targets [...] agian [sic] we need to find something that worth [sic] publishing”;
> That night, we sent one final message offering words of encouragement: “again we are not looking for low hanging fruit, we want proper research to find genuinly [sic] hard findings.”
All of that RLHF and fine-tuning effort is going toward making prompts like this, or worse, work with no fuss.
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These are the kinds of prompts you can get away with using when your token budget is unlimited.
Alternatively, Anthropic employees have basically unlimited token / model usage compared to you and I.
Focusing on a better prompt is likely to get to the correct result faster than incomplete prompts and lots of "no change this ..." replies.
Also, I've heard anecdotally that LLMs will underweight the earliest prompt text once context gets too long, so reminding the LLM of the most important aspects of the prompt seems to be perhaps valuable and certainly what lots of humans attempt.
In toying with VS Code or other 'agent harnesses' I'm always annoyed to find very long verbose system prompts "You are CoPilot. You are an expert. You can do anything you put your mind to..." and on and on.
The token cost is amortized for longer conversations, but I find it bothersome that there's all this implicit instruction I didn't write or am now obligated to understand.
I make a custom agent prompt with "Defer to the user." and little else.
"prompt engineering" in general just boggles my mind. It is amazing how all of this investment has just created software that doesn't follow instructions well.
It's counter to what sci-fi taught us using AI would be like. We never thought we'd have to feed it words of encouragement, we expected it to act more mechanically, like the computer interfaces we have been using, but here we are. It's kind of quaint, and kind of endearing.
Funnily enough, I grew tired of having to do that myself and sort of automated it by triggering calls to the same (or smarter) model, with the recent agent actions, turns, and outputs, and the user’s last n and first x messages.
Two triggers: random and some half-reliable spiral / loop detection.
The spined off has instructions to check what the agent is doing, compare it to what it’s supposed to do, and either offer suggestions, refocus it, or do nothing. And its response then gets injected in the agent’s context.
Not perfect, but surprisingly effective for such a simple thing.
Yeah, in fact you can actually make the model perform worst. You should allow the model to "think for itself" instead of pushing your reasoning into the prompt. You should give it simple prompt and steer it along the way.
Skills, CLAUDE.md/AGENTS.md should only ever be used if the model struggle at something or doesn't know how to use something. Vast majority of project should never need a skill or CLAUDE.md. If you writing React apps you don't need these.
Give a LLM a bash tool and a prompt and it will outperform your complex setup with skills and tools.
With smarter models, Anthropic recommends laying off on giving it too much precise hand-holding, too. Early r/promptengineering had a bunch of the craziest prompts that usually did almost nothing or nothing at all. The subreddit turned into a place where every post was trying to sell some vibe-coded website "product."
Context management is still important, though. If you get to a certain amount of context, things start performing really badly.
vibe typing the mumble prompts?
> we anthropig fire employes makr company run no mistkaes
Keep in mind for Anthropic the goal for them isn't necessarily to solve a problem but to demonstrate/measure the innate capabilities of their model. Many results would be a lot less interesting/impressive for an LLM to accomplish if researchers smuggled in key premises or ideas within their prompt.
That's reassuring, it's exactly how I've always done LLM. It's fine, as long as the gist of what you mean is there you can be real lazy when typing. And I've always been on the cheapest of plans.
The difference is that Anthropic engineers have infinite tokens to throw at these problems for free. The rest of us do not and that's where optimizations in how the coding harness is used likely helps the most.
Is there a non-math example of how a genius prompts? RE: Tao’s Jacobian Conjecture chat https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49010345
Contrast that interactive, misspelled prompting, which I can relate to, against the clear, but intimidating, prompting they published with that theorem proof the other day.
To quote - what I found to be - an absolute zinger from another trending thread on here just 6 hours ago:
> Typical users run software written by atypical users.
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=49084936
This extends to everything. Anthropic has a few thousand engineers, but millions of (also engineer) users. Entire business can be built on niches that are at most a few week pet project for a team there, that can inevitably and significantly outperform them, despite being the people behind the thing.
I'm sure I'm not the only one here who jumped into this whole agentic stuff, built some tooling to make things comfy, only to see that tooling all be increasingly introduced as prim and proper features in the various harnesses weeks later.
> we made a machine that writes with perfect grammar, so that we can continue to write half-assed junk
To be fair
> Importantly, this is just one of many (autonomous) sessions where Claude worked on discovering new ideas. Many sessions resulted in no new discoveries; other follow-up sessions improved on the insight developed in this one. This document was produced by having Claude rewrite the chain of thought to include more detail to make it easier to read.
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Having spent a lot of time over the last months writing both refined, structured, and grammatically perfect prompts, as well as exact equivalents of the ones you quoted (modulo subject of the prompt), I have three observations:
1. I'm glad the second kind works too;
2. First kind is where I find my overall throughput to be literally constrained by my typing speed;
3. Most importantly: those prompts you quote aren't just "half-assed" like sibling comment states; they're different. The style of writing, and the typos, capture emotional valence. It's a signal.
Again, I too produce such prompts - including the exact same typos - when under pressure and irritated by the direction the model is taking.
Been skeptical for quite some time that "using AI" is a real skill/genuine field of expertise. I think I need to start sharing that skepticism more loudly and publicly!
(I'll caveat that by saying I think machine learning fundamentals are useful for evaluating any estimator. And an ML background can be good to give one an appreciation of how hard some tasks are to estimate, such as machine translation, summarization, code generation, and others)