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rayinertoday at 7:33 PM4 repliesview on HN

The problem with complex systems is that you can be dead long before you realize you're dead. Things can continue to seem "pretty good" for a long time just from the inertia of past good decisions and built-up infrastructure. You see some fraying or cracks but everything looks fundamentally sound, until it isn't.

Apple's inability to deploy a new UI framework that's better than the previous one is troubling. This is the company that shifted from Toolbox to Carbon to Cocoa and each step was better than the last. Could Apple build MacOS X and Cocoa today if they didn't already exist? Microsoft's two decades of failure to ship a true successor to Win32 suggests that Microsoft (at least, the operating system side of the company) died a long time ago. I wonder if we'll say the same thing about Apple 10 years hence.


Replies

steve1977today at 7:58 PM

I think the problem with SwiftUI in a way was (or is) that Cocoa was so good. And, at least IMHO, it didn't need replacing, just improving.

But I feel like Apple wanted to appeal to young web devs and tried to offer something more similar to what these are used to.

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mpweihertoday at 9:00 PM

Not just complex. Also "successful for other reasons". And of course the RDF is particularly strong in Apple's case. And these are interlinked as well: they were successful in the past not just despite ignoring feedback/outside advice, but often because of it.

skydhashtoday at 7:49 PM

I think the main issue is the functional approach. Having a functional approach to state can be quite elegant, but ultimately the computer does not do functional. You have to implement a lot of plumbing to have stuff that is a bit performance (clojure), or just add a veneer of functional over what is essentially a normal state machine (emacs).

React works well, because it's only an abstraction over the real DOM. React only handles your app state. But the DOM mechanism is still very performant and very much imperative. But I don't think something like React would work well in a mobile app, because the UI tree is often very simple on iOS and macOS.

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brnttoday at 8:07 PM

I only have to look at the iPhone fucking 17 to know Apple is long gone.

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