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ACCount37today at 12:36 PM2 repliesview on HN

It's a very shaky position, and the empirical track record of "LLMs can't..." is in itself a reason to call it into doubt.

Every "can't" of this nature was followed by a discovery of "they can, just poorly", and then by that "poorly" improving steadily generation to generation.

The paper doesn't provide a way to measure or quantify this elusive "jumping" capability, not even as an approximation. It just throws "can't jump" out there, as if "abduction" is an established class of problem with known computational properties and requirements that the LLM architecture fails to satisfy. It's none of those things - and the paper makes the claim without backing it by anything but rhetoric attempts at persuasion.

The proposed solution is also dubious. The empirical track record of dedicated "world models" for reasoning and problem-solving is, frankly, downright abysmal. Even integrating multimodal data into LLMs has failed to yield general reasoning capability gains.

LeCun's misadventures in the field aside, the main frontier lab that pushes in favor of "improving reasoning via multimodal fusion" is GDM - and Gemini isn't exactly a paragon of frontier reasoning capabilities. It has strong multimodal capabilities, but lags behind both OpenAI and Anthropic in performance outside that - while Anthropic is the lab that always treated multimodal grounding as an afterthought, and still trades blows with OpenAI at the very edge of the performance frontier. Multimodal grounding seems to work great as a way to improve an AI's ability to deal with those specific modalities, but it falters outside that.

Now, it's not impossible that everyone who tried multimodal world models for reasoning is just doing it wrong, and there is an undiscovered recipe for multimodal grounding that results in a step change in AI capabilities. But the results we have so far suggest it to be unlikely.


Replies

vatsachaktoday at 2:32 PM

Okay here's something LLMs can't. They can't solve problems that are longer than ~10 pages of math. They also can't maintain codebases without supervision. It's because they are have no memory and use various tricks to supplant that fact.

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petesergeanttoday at 12:53 PM

> the empirical track record of "LLMs can't..." is in itself a reason to call it into doubt ... Every "can't" of this nature was followed by a discovery of "they can, just poorly", and then etc

What LLMs are "fundamentally incapable" of doing has striking parallels to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_of_the_gaps