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einpoklumyesterday at 9:45 PM7 repliesview on HN

I am not a fan of Wayland. I've not really bought the value proposition; and see also:

https://gist.github.com/probonopd/9feb7c20257af5dd915e3a9f2d...

what's more - this seems like yet another RedHat/IBM project which destroys variety and flexibility in favor of their problematic choices, often with a degradation of functionality. systemd, Wayland, GNOME - and of course nothing would run on BSDes, heavens forbid.

With X11 seeing renewed, independent work via https://xlibre.net - why not embrace _that_ rather than go down the crooked Wayland path?


Replies

CursedSiliconyesterday at 9:53 PM

Given who founded Xlibre (Metux) has some...interesting history (he was banned from the X.org project due to poor code quality and practices [1]) I would say no

Metux himself also has some "fascinating" takes as archived from other projects such as the LKML [1] and Devuan [2] mailing lists

[1] https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/xorg/xserver/-/work_items/179...

[2] https://lkml.org/lkml/2021/6/10/957

[3] https://web.archive.org/web/20190404153507/https://lists.dyn...

show 3 replies
ChocolateGodyesterday at 9:48 PM

HDR, VRR, Mixed refresh rate/DPI displays, Zero-copy video acceleration, support for tiled GPUs

Yeh... we should totally keep to X11.... especially when toolkits start to drop support.

show 2 replies
seifertericyesterday at 11:45 PM

i like the idea of wayland but i agree about the loss of flexibility. they seem very concerned about security and make screen sharing very complex now if you stray from the accepted path. systemd complicates this further with logind seat management etc. as a result our companies dev servers where we run a bunch of simultaneous VNCs and independent mate desktop sessions can really only work with X11 for now. There is a way to do it with nested cgroups running n number of systemd instances etc but its a pain and then we would have to use gnomes built in rdp thing which we dont want to use… anyway i actually vibe coded a way to get it working with wayland in containers with a dummy kernel video driver, my own fake logind etc. etc. etc. it was a harrowing experience but fun.

prmoustacheyesterday at 11:51 PM

> and of course nothing would run on BSDes

A number of wayland compositors are available in at least freebsd and openbsd (haven't checked on netbsd and dragonflybsd). Wayland is only a protocol. Whoever wants to support it can.

gucci-on-fleektoday at 12:11 AM

> which destroys variety and flexibility

That's probably the worst argument that you could make against Wayland: there has only ever been a single X11 server in common use on the Linux desktop (first XFree86, now X.Org), but there are tons of independent Wayland "server" implementations (Weston, Mutter, KWin, wlroots, etc.) [0]. Lots of these are written in completely different languages and implement different extensions from each other, so there's way more variety and flexibility with Wayland than with X11.

The more common criticism that I've heard is that Wayland's variety and flexibility is actually bad, because it makes it harder to add extensions (since you need to implement it in multiple different projects, and not just the single X.Org codebase), and it means that applications potentially have to test against multiple implementations. (I don't necessarily agree with this criticism myself, but it's still a valid complaint.)

> and of course nothing would run on BSDes

FreeBSD [1] and OpenBSD [2] both have Wayland support.

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_display_servers#Waylan...

[1]: https://docs.freebsd.org/en/books/handbook/wayland/

[2]: https://xenocara.org/Wayland_on_OpenBSD.html#running-wayland

guywithahatyesterday at 10:00 PM

I kind of wonder that too, I'm fine using wayland but it seemed like a huge user hassle for not many benefits (namely independent screen scaling which xlibre now supports). It's a shame xlibre didn't come around sooner, after years of pain wayland support has gotten a lot better, to the point I can more or less use either without issue.