alt Hacker News> "sensible"
According to what idea of "sensible"?
> encourage a Ukrainian surrender early on and send them some food/whatnot in a care package, then fortify the Polish border.
This would still have resulted in millions of refugees, plus some unknown number of people killed by Russian forces exterminating any local pro-Europe political supporters. Remember Euromaidan. It also snuffs out a democracy, which is not a good precedent to set.
The second motivation is the belief that the invasion, if permitted, will not stop at Ukraine. This is why Finland and Sweden joined NATO after it happened.
> Keeping a conflict worthy of WWII smouldering in the area for more than 4 years now?
Russia can retreat into their internationally recognized borders at any time.
> Can we please be honest about our motivations here?
Can we be honest about the motivations of Russia in capturing and annexing other countries, something forbidden by both the post-WW2 international order and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum (which also justifies Europe's security provision to Ukraine)?
Replies
> The second motivation is the belief that the invasion, if permitted, will not stop at Ukraine.
Which, with 20/20 hindsight, we now know was wild paranoia. The Russians weren't even geared up to properly invade Ukraine, they were as shocked as the rest of us when the Ukrainians decided a land war in Asia was a better idea than surrender. They spent something like 2 years back in 2022-2024 retooling for a real war. They weren't preparing to take Poland, they were trying to preserve a sphere of influence in Ukraine.
A Russian motivation that has held up remarkably well in hindsight as we start to get a better idea of the fear and hate motivating Europe and what NATO thinks their strategic objectives are vis-a-vis Russia.
They might well end up in a war with Poland now after NATO has spent 4 years in this Slavocidal posture, but it wasn't on the cards before we embarked on this poorly advised policy of war.
> Can we be honest about the motivations of Russia in capturing and annexing other countries, something forbidden by both the post-WW2 international order and the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum (which also justifies Europe's security provision to Ukraine)?
I mean, yeah? Everyone acknowledges that except a couple of the UN delegations. Send them a strongly worded letter, that works on the US sometimes. It isn't normal for a major to break international law and it ends up in a million-casualty war where we sponsor bombing runs on their capital.
But if we aren't honest about our own motivations then we end up in situations like this one, where there is a major war and there doesn't seem to be any reason to be provoking and sustaining it. It has been disastrous policy. We shouldn't have done it, we shouldn't have continued it and we should stop it now. We're just pushing the global centre of power towards Asia.
« Russia can retreat into their internationally recognized borders at any time. »
The US has around 900 military bases abroad. Far more than all other countries combined. These bases are a constant source of threats and bullying, deploying and projecting a GDP largely based on death and destruction. Why don't the US retreat into their internationally recognized borders?