logoalt Hacker News

dash2yesterday at 6:35 PM6 repliesview on HN

> the space and time coordinates switch places as you cross the event horizon

I'm sorry but this is blowing my mind. What???


Replies

Kranaryesterday at 7:13 PM

Because it's very misleading. Time and space do not switch places past the event horizon. What happens is that the direction/path between an object and the singularity becomes a timelike dimension, and the direction that plays the role of time outside of the event horizon becomes a spacelike dimension. That is not the same as them swapping or that time becomes space and space becomes time not to mention that space has 3 dimensions and time has only 1 dimension so how could they even swap places.

Really what it means is that past the event horizon you can use the direction in space between you and the singularity as a way to measure time, specifically the amount of time left before you reach the singularity. It's not so mind blowing when you interpret it that way now is it? You can imagine many things in ordinary life that you use to measure time without claiming that time has literally swapped places with it. On a road trip, the number of kilometres to your exit tells you how long you have left, that's using space as a proxy for time... big deal. The notable difference between a road trip and a black hole is that on a road trip you could stop for a break, you could maybe take a detour, you could decide to go back home... and these would all break your use of space as a proxy for measuring time. Well with a blackhole you can't do any of those things, there is no going back, there is no detour, the relationship between the spatial direction towards the singularity and time is fixed and causal and there's nothing you can do about it.

The phrasing used is used almost certainly to evoke some kind of voodoo mind-blowing mystery that completely disappears when you get down to the more strict formalism.

show 1 reply
_moofyesterday at 9:43 PM

It's unfortunately misleading shorthand for what actually happens: space becomes timelike. It doesn't become time. All this means is that once you cross the event horizon, you can only ever move toward the center of the black hole, in the same way that outside of a black hole, you can only ever move toward the future. You might not take a direct route to the center, but no matter which way you move, you will be following a track that ends at the center.

The reason this phenomenon has a spooky-sounding name is that it also affects whether two objects can be causally connected. If you can only ever move closer to the center of the black hole, then there are (conceivably) other objects inside the event horizon that you can never have a causal relationship with.

But it doesn't mean that space and time literally switch places.

MathMonkeyManyesterday at 6:53 PM

[This video][1] and the one before it on the playlist are a good no nonsense explanation of the topic.

[1]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O_2vnb_eVGE

metalliqazyesterday at 7:08 PM

it might help to think of the singularity as not a point in space but rather a future that cannot be avoided. All possible paths through space and time, no matter what happens, will go towards the singularity.

lstoddyesterday at 6:44 PM

Yup. It's that weird.

Also read Nick Gorkavyi: The Oscillating Universe: Einsteinian Cosmology of Black Holes and Gravitational Waves