alt Hacker News> The other problem with SSRI treatment is that individually they are only barely better than placebo. They're among the worst classes of drugs as far as NNT,
These numbers are really misunderstood when taken out of context.
SSRIs have an NNT around 7, depending on the study you look at (random Google result https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/19588448/ as an example )
Which sounds terrible if you know nothing about NNT. But when you learn that Tylenol has an NNT of almost 5 and even a powerful drug like Xanax has an NNT of 4, you realize that NNT is a difficult measure of drug efficacy.
> Especially in acute cases, I think they should be replaced or augmented by something stylistically in the direction of esketamine. 6-8 weeks per medication trial is an absolute eternity
Ketamine and esketamine are used a lot to begin therapy. They’re not good long-term options though, so they’re best used to start treatment as a bridge to SSRI efficacy.
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Okay, so we set aside NNT, even though their NNH is also quite low, and that's highly relevant, what about effect size and remission rate? This feels a bit like cherrypicking. And you'll note I said "augmented", as well, if somebody is going through the treatment algorithm with SSRIs, by all means, that's the bridge to stability for somebody on a longer term course.
But many people don't need anything more than acute treatment, so what about them?
> SSRIs have an NNT around 7, depending on the study you look at [...] Which sounds terrible if you know nothing about NNT. But when you learn that Tylenol has an NNT of almost 5 and even a powerful drug like Xanax has an NNT of 4, you realize that NNT is a difficult measure of drug efficacy
This kind of comparison is utterly meaningless (like saying a Cohen's d of 0.3 is large for phenomena X, so if we see 0.4 in phenomena Y, it is large in Y), and is just one part of why NNT as usually reported is basically deceptive for antidepressants.
What qualifies as an effective "treatment" has to be anchored to a minimal important difference, and this is what antidepressants really don't clearly have, on average. I.e. saying the NNT of SSRIs is around 7 is not really practically interpretable, because they tend not to base NNTs here on the amount of patients that actually experienced a clinically meaningful change, they just count the number that exceed some arbitrary (usually purely statistical) threshold.
If you reformulate NNT competently to count number of people needed to be treated to ensure one has (on expectation) a minimally important difference in the depression scales, then the NNT gets even larger than is typically reported.