alt Hacker News> Hybrids likely have more engineering around the start-stop cycles than full ICEs with start-stop bolted on to meet emissions requirements.
What evidence is there for this? The Prius was around for 12 years before Toyota brought their first production start-stop ICE to market, surely they (and other mfgs whose hybrids predate start-stop) didn't just throw away all of that knowledge to haphazardly "bolt on" a start-stop system. They didn't, which is why start-stop equipped card have things like low-friction coatings on their crankshaft bearings.
> The prius style dual motor/generator planetary gear arangment avoids concerns about starter motor longevity
Redesigned starter motors with improved longevity also avoid these concerns. In start-stop systems, the starter motor is a safety critical item and they are engineered to a much higher standard. As far as I can find, there's only one start-stop starter related recall in the US (Honda) and it wasn't even a mechanical issue.
> From my experience with a couple rental cars a year, on user experience, start-stop is all over the map from really annoying to noticable but unobtrusive ... I imagine how design challenges around lubrication are met is also all over the map.
I think this captures exactly why people fixate on these systems. They assume that because they can be janky to use (they often can be), that they must be jankily designed. I can't prove a negative, but I just haven't ever seen meaningful evidence that start-stop cars fail faster or fail in the ways critics suggest they should. Surely we would see some evidence of the extra spun bearings, sparkly oil, and premature starter replacements that this almost 20 year old tech has has wrought by now, right? The only evidence I've seen are slightly more expensive batteries needing to be replaced slightly more often.
> As far as I can find, there's only one start-stop starter related recall in the US (Honda) and it wasn't even a mechanical issue.
A start-stop starter issue seems more likely to be handled quietly with Technical Service Bulletins rather than a recall, IMHO. Unless the issue is a critical safety issue or is likely to affect every vehicle, manufacturers seem to prefer TSBs that have much less visibility than a recall. If you're lucky, the dealer will take care of it at your next scheduled service; but many TSBs are only taken care of if you specifically ask about trouble you're having and the dealer is aware of the TSB and you bring it up during the TSB period... my Ford hybrid had a major bearing issue and they replaced the whole motor/generator/transmission assembly under the TSB but only because I happened upon the TSB and brought it in specifically complaining... they had it for scheduled maintenance while it was exhibiting symptoms but it wasn't bad enough for me to complain and they didn't mention anything ... had I known to ask, I would have gotten a new replacement rather than a remanufactured, but oh well.
> They assume that because they can be janky to use (they often can be), that they must be jankily designed.
I think it's a fair assumption, because cars tend to be jankily designed or at least designed around the edge of viability. Most of the modern vehicles I've owned have had successful class actions about drive train problems that almost always come down to running things close to the edge to meet emissions requirements.
There's this one for start-stop https://www.carscoops.com/2025/08/honda-paying-millions-to-s... but there were a lot in the 2000s related to oil leaks etc related to running thinner oils for emissions. It's a consistent pattern; push the envelope for emissions, deal with the powertrain problems via class action.
> almost 20 year old tech
It's closer to 10-15 years old for the North American market, discounting systems used for hybrids because they tend to be significantly different.