alt Hacker News(Posting partly so I can revisit my predictions when they open access more widely)
A big problem I have with OpenAI's models (and of course Claude) is that they tend to write the most over-engineered pieces of code, beyond the imagination of any architecture's astronaut.
Just this week I asked 5.6-sol-ultra to update a 1000 LOC python script I had, to "incorporate the key lessons learned when using it for another project".
I left it overnight and went to sleep. In the morning I realized it had created a monstruosity of 180 PYTHON SCRIPTS, with maybe 100,000 lines of code, each more crazy than the other. It took me minutes even to track where a single action took place, due to all the crazy imports, defensive coding, and premature optimization.
Similarly, anything they write is riddled with jargon that almost feel like they want me to give up trying to understand. Made up phrases that ended up with me having no idea of what was going on.
So now to my assessment: The reason why " Nobody Has Actually Built a Software Factory" [1], and why even SOTA LLMs struggle so much with open-ended unsupervised tasks is precisely this. They somehow let complexity explode, and unless it's also accompanied with an explosion in e.g. the number of agents, the amount of processing time, etc. then projects become broken/unmanageable.
Sure, LLMs are great at producing code that can be thrown out, so they are amazing when searching for exploits, for instance. But as of 5.6 they still lack either a better harness that encourages KISS principles, or a better RL step.
(And not sure why, but doubt Astra will fix this.. they seem to be aiming for AGI and for beating crazy benchmarks, which is not very aligned with KISS)
Replies
Probably this complexity was needed to beat all those benchmarks.. While I hate the code it produces, and the overwhelming documentation, I really enjoy how sometimes it's able to keep trying new things and testing, till it finds something interesting and valuable.
Would you mind posting that code to github? I'm curious about the complexity you're describing.
If not, no worries!
Exact same thing happed to me. I gave it a small/medium-sized ticket, walked away, came back to a 25,000 LoC monstrosity that both Fable and another 5.6 Sol agent said is 98% useless and should be thrown away.
Future of Software Development.
You should have a sub agent adversarially enforce KISS before every commit.
Yes, it turns out that using these machines is a littler harder than "make me the thing I want, make no mistakes, do it the way I want you to do it". This isn't "prompt better" advice, it's just to say that you can't simply set it and forget it. There is still engineering work to be done. If you're not watching the thinking traces and catching when it's about to go off the rails, it'll gladly do so. But you can stop it and redirect it.
It's like a Tesla fsd; it kind of works but you have to be vigilant since it's been known to turn into oncoming traffic, so you have to be ready and able to take over at any time.
Or maybe think of it like a roomba. You can put it on your floor and eventually it will clean the whole thing. It will do it inefficiently, vacuuming over the same spot 30 times; and the actual work will involve wandering around and bumping into everything. If the stairs are not blocked off it will plunge right off. But those shortcomings don't mean it can't be used to reliably clean the floors.
This is user error.
Prompting the model and giving it a proper set of documentation are still vital skills that aren’t magically going away.
1000 loc of script, why even leave it there for the night? were there rocket trajectory calculations??? I don't think so. should be ready in 5 mins tops. why people make their own lives harder?
You should have some basic context file about software practices you prefer, otherwise it gets bloated.
> Just this week I asked 5.6-sol-ultra to update a 1000 LOC python script I had, to "incorporate the key lessons learned when using it for another project".
> I left it overnight and went to sleep. In the morning I realized it had created a monstruosity of 180 PYTHON SCRIPTS, with maybe 100,000 lines of code [..]
Sounds like the model has accurately internalized the second-system effect and is fully ready for demanding enterprise use.