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Gareth321yesterday at 7:59 PM4 repliesview on HN

> However the cold reality for both is that there is zero moat to a model anymore.

The moat right now is a) the hardware, b) the electricity, c) the intelligence, and d) scalability.

On hardware, it's very expensive to purchase anything which can provide a fraction of the performance of a subscription. Traditional accounting depreciation would imply that purchasing local hardware is a terrible financial decision.

On electricity, this is a surprising cost center depending on location. A system with just one 5090 can easily pull 1kW, and to achieve usable performance for a workplace is going to require dozens of machines. This can represent an extra $10-20k in electricity in cheap places. In California or Europe this could be $30-60k per year.

As for intelligence, the frontier models from OpenAI and Anthropic are still superior, and they have at least a 3-6 month head start. Distilled models are closing the gap on some metrics, but they still can't compete. That's why they cost so much less.

The last major moat is the ability for subscriptions to scale with need. This means easily adding and removing licenses. This is far easier than purchasing extremely expensive hardware (and managing it), and selling it if/when internal demand changes. It's the same reason companies use contractors. The ramp up/down costs are very high.

The only real moat that local LLMs have right now is privacy.


Replies

subarcticyesterday at 9:55 PM

Re this point

> As for intelligence, the frontier models from OpenAI and Anthropic are still superior, and they have at least a 3-6 month head start. Distilled models are closing the gap on some metrics, but they still can't compete. That's why they cost so much less.

I would argue that the reason they cost so little is because anyone can run open models and offer them as a service, so there's actual competition and the price is closer to cost. i.e. if the open models were just as intelligent as frontier models but cost the same to run as they do right now, the price wouldn't be higher (unless demand went up so high that marginal cost to provide more of the service went up, due to scarcity of hardware and or electricicy).

On the other hand, if what you're saying is the frontier labs have some pricing power due to their models being better, and that is the reason they are able to charge more than the companies providing open models as a service, then I would agree.

sedansesameyesterday at 8:33 PM

Privacy is non-negotiable for corporate. Even without considering costs or country of origin, we've seen from OpenAI that claims of AI safety are worth less than the (virtual) paper they're printed on.

All it takes is one incident, and all your company's internal data will start showing up in public users' chats. You can rely on a contract to prevent this, or you can guarantee it by using a locally hosted model you fully control.

When combined with the cost savings and good enough performance mentioned in the article, this can become a huge selling point.

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cmiles8yesterday at 8:37 PM

You’re missing the point that 98+% of the use cases for AI don’t require the latest greatest model and are far better positioned to use the fast-follow distilled cheap models.

OpenAI and Anthropic are fighting to win a race (build the biggest baddest model) that has no prize. The prize is mass adoption at scale at the best price, which is why companies are rapidly shifting to open model. They don’t need to pay 10x for a model that’s provides no practical additional benefit.

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archagonyesterday at 10:24 PM

Actually, the moat is regulatory. Expect these companies to behave themselves in progressively more grotesque and sycophantic ways to get the federal government to make open/foreign models (and their output) illegal. After all, their very survival depends on it.