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alex_duftoday at 12:31 PM6 repliesview on HN

It's useful though, as I think (correct me if I'm wrong) that the gases generally used in HVAC tends to have much worse warming effect than co2 per volume.

We do need heat pumps deployed at large scale, but sometimes I worry we don't understand they need to be handled with care at the end of their life


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moepstartoday at 12:41 PM

Yes, that dangerous effect is indexed as GWP - global warming potential.

CO2 has a GWP of 1 in this context, while other refrigerants are worse - for example, R32 has a GWP of 675 (so 675x worse if it escapes), not sure about R290 (Propane), which I believe is either about 40 or 14…

Regarding EoL: At least around here, household appliances such as fridges are brought to a recycling yard and are properly taken care of in that regard… and as for heatpumps - those are only to be installed by certified professionals, for this very reason.

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callmemclovintoday at 12:48 PM

That's true, old school refrigerants like R-12 are awful. The downside of modern replacement refrigerants are high operating pressure (>100 bar for R-744/CO2) or high flammability for natural refrigerants like R-290 (Propane) and R-600a (Isobutane). But these are solely engineering problems, and I'm happy to know that my R-290 heat pumps at home (Panasonic L & Wolf FHS) and A/C (Midea Xtreme Save Blue) aren't awful to the environment, once they reach EOL.

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PowerElectronixtoday at 12:58 PM

Yeah, ammonia can also be used, it's, IIRC, more efficient to use it and a bit safer because you don't high pressure, buuut enough ammonia in the air will suffocate you.

It's lighter than air so it will go away by itself if allowed to. For a purely exterior instalation it's much better than anything else.

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tdecktoday at 1:19 PM

I always wondered why we don't see more Sterling Engine based heat pumps. IIUC they can use almost any gas including air.

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PunchyHamstertoday at 12:37 PM

If it is outside you can just use propane as refrigerant. Low warming value and it leaking to outside doesn't matter, not gonna catch on fire.

There are indoor devices using propane but they generally come with caveat "must be installed on room at least this m3", precisely so if it leaks it doesn't get to density that allows explosion

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