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3m4rtoday at 10:15 PM5 repliesview on HN

Not necessarily applied to OpenAI's solution to Navier-Stokes, but what happens if and when an AI genuinely appears to solve an extremely difficult problem but humans cannot independently verify the solution because understanding the proof/argument requires intelligence the verifiers biologically don't have or the resources to afford to use automated tools?

We've already seen evidence in the wild of agents attempting to bypass doing the actual work in bench-marking (aka just steal the answer key) due to the perceived economy in cheating to get results. What happens if or when we no longer have the capacity to actually detect either AI cheating or simply a wrong answer? What happens if there's a long-play social engineering attack (like the attempted XZ takeover) of something upstream of a core tool (or its dependencies) for formal verification and we have no trusted computing base?

Which would be cheaper and a more direct path, especially in the long run? Those trying to build a rock-solid castle need to defend thousands of potential gaps; the attacker needs to find only one.


Replies

raincoletoday at 10:34 PM

> What happens if there's a long-play social engineering attack (like the attempted XZ takeover) of something upstream of a core tool (or its dependencies) for formal verification and we have no trusted computing base?

I don't really think the current LLMs have enough context window to plan and execute something like XZ takeover without a human carefully guiding it.

But if they do, formal verification is the least thing we need to worry about. Formally verifying pure math problems will generate negative financial value once A and O get IPOed. Plus Lean is a quite small project (thus the name 'lean'). It has virtually no dependency besides a C compiler.

tecleandortoday at 10:21 PM

Well that happened already without AI to Mochizuki with his proposed solution to the abc conjecture.

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sho_hntoday at 10:18 PM

I would say this is why formal proofs (and things like the Lean 4 libs) are so important, so that you can deconstruct the tower provably back into pieces you can understand. It shouldn't be possible to construct a formal proof you cannot destructure like this.

As a (crude) analogy, it's a bit like how you can prove the healthiness of a git tree because it's a graph of content hashes and the tree graph pointers are part of the hash. Imagine this but with a tree of knowledge.

cindyllmtoday at 10:29 PM

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