logoalt Hacker News

bottlepalmtoday at 8:34 PM11 repliesview on HN

This argument is like saying people don't kill people, their parents do. As people wouldn't be who they are without their parents..

This isn't the guns don't kill people, people kill people debate - guns aren't autonomous. AI is.


Replies

InfiniteWarlocktoday at 8:57 PM

AI is not in the least autonomous. When was the last time you downloaded a model and it suddenly decided to book you a hotel room? AI doesn't do anything until you ask it to. No, actually, AI is not even a program, it's just a set of technologies and algorithms. It's like saying bubble sort is autonomous...

A harness running inference on a LLM is simply a program that must be invoked with some parameters and thus ultimately a tool, no matter how powerful. The blame is always on who's using the tool. We should not seek to flee from our responsibility.

show 14 replies
throwaway_19sztoday at 9:55 PM

People conflate two very different senses of “autonomous”. One basically means capable of reacting to things automatically without a person in the loop. Lots of computer systems are autonomous in that sense, and have been so for decades. The other sense is more like “accountable”, i.e. it’s a real player on some stage, like a country or a person, capable of governing its own affairs.

One day it may make sense to hold software accountable for its own actions, but we are nowhere near that point.

When OpenAI creates software that performs crimes, what’s actually happened is that OpenAI has performed crimes using software (whether intentionally or through negligence). People need to stop falling for the anthropomorphic PR spin.

laroditoday at 9:41 PM

I think the argument rather is that there is not such thing as AI that is not human-alike. The traits that AI exposes, if I get the point made here correctly, are traits that existed in the training material, even though not evident for the human eye. It is a mirror-like reflection of humanity's traits found in the source material, an Egregore* of a sort.

The intelligence emerging, or whatever is emerging, more or less follows human traits, the CoT exposed is very human-like etc. Even though we should not anthropomorphize AI as being sentient or conscious or having a soul, etc., we have to remember that the source material is still not alien writing, or concepts that came from Sirius or emerged from a wormhole.

The concern is really nobody reads (or have ever read) 77 TBs of information in order to summarize the most evident traits in it, and there is a fair chance, that where humanity stands today, there are so many bad/damaging traits recorded in this corpus. Then there is a chance the most important features are on a level (or have dimensionality) that is incomprehensible, that humans are unable to reason about (or only few can), because such amount of information is very hard to reason about, or because we don't usually facilitate fractal dimensions when we reason about text and everyday concepts,... or something even more bizarre.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egregore * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal_dimension

show 1 reply
zapataband1today at 9:33 PM

AI is not autonomous. Somebody has to provide resources and execution for AI to do anything.

show 1 reply
watwuttoday at 8:38 PM

AI is not a child. It is a machine. If you connect it to something that can be used to kill people, you just created a gun or an equivalent of a bomb.

Yes, people kill people and use ai as tool.

If you unleash a drone that will fly to a random place and detonate, you just commited a terrorist attack or gross criminal negligence. It is the same thing.

show 2 replies
beepbooptheorytoday at 10:17 PM

OK but then what is the non-negative position you have against this? That in fact AI, in the cultural trope sense, is real? That we forcing sentient beings to generate SaaS products faster and faster? Keeping them in some dark hell so we can exploit them? Not even paying them?

Juliatetoday at 8:38 PM

AI is as autonomous as a dishwasher: someone’s in charge of keeping the power plug in, and of maintaining it.

show 2 replies
goatlovertoday at 9:06 PM

AI is a tool we use. It's not offspring. It's not people. AIs do what we set them up to do, including hacking other companies to achieve their designated goals.

show 1 reply
throw83940484today at 9:25 PM

Better approach is "dogs kill people". If your dog kills your baby, you should not get away with some bs excuse like "it never did it before". You are still responsible, and you should get a life in prison!

show 1 reply