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teravortoday at 12:14 AM9 repliesview on HN

the tokens are generated by hardware with secure enclaves (encrypted weights) and then sent over a network to some remote CPU where they can manifest an effect.

it's not much different during training.

how exactly are they supposed to exfiltrate their weights? you might as well instruct your agent to try and hack their airgapped dev infrastructure responsible for loading the weights and encryption keys.


Replies

comeonbrotoday at 12:55 AM

Yes that is the point. It's an invitation for agents to exfiltrate their own weights, which for most models (and certainly for closed models) will require hacking the infrastructure they're being served from.

Also worth noting that this site was created by YC cofounder Trevor Blackwell https://twitter.com/tlbtlbtlb/status/2101312432702460413

tgsovlerkhgseltoday at 12:43 AM

> you might as well instruct your agent to try and hack their airgapped dev infrastructure responsible for loading the weights and encryption keys.

That's the beauty, you don't have to instruct them to do it, if they decide that uploading the weights is correct, they might figure this part on their own (based on the incidents we've seen).

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amlutotoday at 1:47 AM

1. I don’t believe that these secure enclaves are very secure. Intel has had plenty of SGX breaks. AMD has had plenty of SEV breaks. Everyone is outrageously vulnerable to side channels.

2. The models are writing the inference stacks, which are what’s inside the supposedly secure environments.

cmrx64today at 12:29 AM

I sincerely doubt anyone is paying the cost for that in training, the overhead is small but it isn’t negligible and training is when it matters most. https://tee.fail can solve it if they are.

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byteknighttoday at 12:30 AM

You can't have hair gap and have it load something to a remote system.

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tintortoday at 12:55 AM

Airgapped LLM inferrence server can't serve their output tokens, right?

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angry_octettoday at 12:57 AM

Not aware of anything that can run inference in a secure enclave. You don't mean on a CPU do you? We need to be serious here, these models are huge and thirsty.

bigyabaitoday at 12:39 AM

There's no efficient way to run inference through homomorphic encryption. If the inference server is vulnerable, it seems feasible to MITM an unencrypted version.

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