Obscura: VPN that can't log your activity

As others have pointed out, this is like Apple iCloud Private Relay, and other multi-hop privacy systems that have been built on and off over the last several decades (Tor included).

We wrote a research paper on the general principle a few years ago: https://conferences.sigcomm.org/hotnets/2022/papers/hotnets2...

I don't understand the point of this.

Many (if not all) of the benefits on the landing page are available in Mullvad too, which is a more mature and reputable product, has all clients fully open-source, and powers the exit servers for Obscura.

Why should I choose this over Mullvad?

So two hops, basically. First hop sees your IP address but not the website you're going to, second hop sees website but not IP address. Similar to Private Relay: https://support.apple.com/en-us/102602.

Any vpn company who market itself as aiming for the anonymity of its user is essentially selling snake oil to its customers. The fact that this company pretends to be more respective of the privacy of its user because it is in America is a vast joke, companies in America are expect to collaborate with the security services, even monopolies don't escape from it.

i am very skeptical of most vpn companies, and while i haven't looked too hard at obscura, it is worth noting the official partnership with mullvad (https://mullvad.net/en/blog/mullvad-partnered-with-obscura-v...) which is certainly a positive signal

side note: i really wish more companies did the no email + randomized account number flow. there is a certain popular "pro-privacy" product beloved by many here that requires an email address and refuses to offer a similar account number method, which has turned me off the product.

> Exit servers (run by Mullvad) connect you to the internet but never see your personal info. Obscura masks your real IP address when relaying to the exit server.

How is this possible? If the exit server doesn't know your IP, how does it know where to send the traffic?

I hope MPTCP would be more popular

Many src-dst connections but as a single logical connection. There's no way any middlebox could easy capture full data even metadata.

http2/QUIC can do something similar with frames (and hopefully multipath)

Don't place your whole stream inside a single src-dst IP connection. Demux them into many paths over the Internet. We need more variety of "traffic shapes" to combat Internet surveillance.

I'd argue it's even more effective than encryption. Split your activity and mix them, monitor traffic over a single transport is useless.

> the first VPN that can’t log your activity and outsmarts internet censorship.

I guess they never heard of Zero Knowledge Systems: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_Knowledge_Systems

This sounds pretty neat, and I do dig the website, though I can’t help but think it’s an odd combination to have bitmap/pixelated fonts and graphics inside perfect squircles.

Seems like you guys have two distinct ideas of a visual identity completely at odds there. Shape contrast is nice and can be rather fun to play with, but it has to be handled with care. Right now it feels like the designer had a bunch of ideas and didn’t know how to bring them together in a cohesive identity.

Bonus point for the TRON reference at the end! “I fight for the users!”

How does this prove Obscura and Mullvad can't just both gather tracking data and then just combine it on demand?

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=48696800

This is where part of your money flows to (I have opinions about this).

Not sure if you are also aware of it.

Your traffic is still unencrypted by the VPN provider at the other end of the Wireguard connection, I am not sure how this changes that?

https://obscura.com/check/ does this page know the difference between a direct mullvad user and an obscura user, if so, how?

Packet padding but no docs about this?

Carl from Obscura here

Happy to answer any questions y’all might have!

Also, the technical folks may be more interested in our original post: https://obscura.com/blog/bootstrapping-trust/

Vp.net did it first: https://vp.net/l/en-US/technical#cryptography

Great signup flow, except there’s an error when it comes to installing the app at the end. Worked around by installing manually via app store

So like OHTTP but for UDP traffic? I suppose they are using MASQUE CONNECT-UDP?

They are careful to not exactly claim the same anonymity properties of Tor, though I think a lay reader will read that differently (ie, that they do have the same anonymity property as Tor).

That said being able to verify the inner wireguard conn to mullvad is nice. Of course you have to trust them that they aren't colluding with mullvad to share your identity/ip. But same goes for OHTTP.

I love the website, messaging and idea. Well done. if you guys need a place to host, please consider controlplane.com

Many VPNs don't log activity. Headline is objectively false.

Basically a middle-man for a Mullvad VPN, where if Mullvad decides to pull out of their agreement with this company, you lose your connection and are hopefully refunded.

The single point of failure for this product is Mullvad and its leadership's changing opinions.

I don't like 'us vs others' kinda comparisons, it's just marketing trick, which means they care more about sales than your privacy.

Secondly, Mullvad did what Obscura does now years ago.

Furthermore who needs a gamified VPN tool?

a vpn company is a paid for MITM attack surface.

> first

Really? XD

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It’s often ‘impossible’ and until it happens /s