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luma • yesterday at 6:05 PM • 9 replies • view on HN

Some version of this claim has been made for the past 4 years. There's a data cliff, there's no more compute to buy, the financials don't make sense and all of these orgs will be out of business by end of quarter.

Not once has any of these predictions come true, the pace of progress has continued on it's exponential trajectory since ChatGPT first came to the public's attention.

So why now? What is special about today that suggests all of this is coming to a screeching halt despite all evidence to the contrary?


Replies

OliveronData • yesterday at 6:43 PM

> ... the pace of progress has continued on it's exponential trajectory since ChatGPT first came to the public's attention.

Did it? Model wise? I would understand agents wise, sure. But model wise? The attention to detail from the model? The ability to recall minute things? Improvements are there, yes, but mostly on Fable and Astra. Opus still isn't as attentive as Fable in long term writing for example.

Sure, Opus 5.5 benchmarks better than Fable. Sure. But is that the model, or is that the RL for agentic work?

From where I'm standing, the model work has not been exponential at all, and more and more it looks like the latest and greatest is getting too expensive too fast. Both 5.5 and 5.6 chat models got nerfed, actually nerfed not the tea leaves kind. In mid 5.5 cycle the chat model lost the ability to substitute names if given an outline. 5.6 cycle the chat model lost the ability to use paragraphs after a few hundred words (coinciding with Chat/Work split).

There's a race from OpenAI to serve dumber models on chat. I'm not even sure who they are racing against, but the fact that Astra, Sol 6.0, and now Sol 6.1 not being available for chat, should tell you that those models are expensive, and not the kind of models that can be freely "chatted" with on a subscription. OpenAI much prefers you use Work and limit the chat usage, much like Grok and Claude. I'm guessing they will announce that later during the dev days.

That could be cost cutting too, true, but really? That's the only explanation? And nothing else?

Sure, the progress did not stop. But it is nowhere near close being exponential when it comes to LLMs themselves. Agents are separate.

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holbrad • yesterday at 11:18 PM

I think this is just a case of the bitter lesson that increasing compute just makes all these predictions meaningless. LLMs just keep going when everyone predicts them to fail constantly.

john_strinlai • yesterday at 6:33 PM

>Not once has any of these predictions come true, the pace of progress has continued on it's exponential trajectory since ChatGPT first came to the public's attention.

do you think it will be exponential forever?

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trentnix • yesterday at 6:35 PM

Yep. I've made the claim (and been wrong). I was convinced the data cliff was going to be a real problem. Now I feel like we are on the cusp of having Tony Stark's Jarvis at our fingertips.

What a time to be alive.

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chamomeal • yesterday at 9:17 PM

Has it been exponential this whole time? I feel like GPT-4 was pretty dang good. Maybe it’s rose tinted glasses cause I could finally have a bot write my dockerfiles and bash scripts, which knocked my socks off

digdugdirk • yesterday at 6:43 PM

The difference now is that they've hit the "good enough" point. LLMs are a tool, and that tool is useful but not incredibly valuable unto itself.

To make a manufacturing analogy - ChatGPT was a manual machining mill, and in the years after we've gone from that to a 3-axis CNC mill. Now we've added a 4th and 5th axis, which is great for the 2% of parts that need that functionality. But the big win was that initial jump from manual control to CNC. Why would I pay an extra $2 million for my CNC machine when I could just design my parts to be simpler to produce instead? The AI labs are trying to make these incredibly complex tools, but the market doesn't want/need them so they're competing on price for the tools that people do use. By selling their metaphorical CNC machines for half of what they cost to produce.

Oh, and we've bet the entire economy on the hope that fancier CNC machines will magically solve all our problems in all industries, from healthcare to the legal system.

So - will AI progress continue to improve? Sure. Will we continue lighting money on fire in order to make it happen? That remains to be seen.

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interestpiqued • yesterday at 6:47 PM

4 years is not that long in the grand scheme of things to be fair

dgellow • yesterday at 6:14 PM

Those points were true at the time and most are still true now. But they aren’t predictions.

- it’s correct there isn’t much fresh data anymore

- it’s correct that compute is scarce, that was 100% the case and a huge issue at the beginning of the year, it is better now but still scarce, and hardware is now way, way more expensive

- it’s correct the finances don’t make sense

But there is no way to know when a bubble pop, because it’s a psychological phenomenon across an extremely complicated distributed system (ie the stock and bonds markets)

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dcchambers • yesterday at 7:49 PM

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