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noduerme • today at 2:04 PM • 5 replies • view on HN

But others don't lack those means. Others always have financial resources and political connections, even if you banned lobbying. Of all the ways people can influence policy, this is the legal one. The other methods are not nearly as civilized.

Also, just to be clear, is the Teachers Union an embarrassment to democracy? Auto workers? Environmental groups? Or are there some forms of lobbying you're okay with as long as your ox isn't gored?


Replies

swed420 • today at 3:39 PM

> Of all the ways people can influence policy, this is the legal one. The other methods are not nearly as civilized.

False. An excellent example is the vTaiwan / pol.is platform. It incorporates the interests of all stakeholders:

government, business, AND citizens

SmirkingRevenge • today at 4:04 PM

This is why we have freedom of speech and association in the US. If you have the will, but not the resources, you can rally people to your cause. You can try to find like-minded individuals with shared goals and with your collective resources, you can build influence.

Success is hard of course, but you have the freedom to try.

And in the states, I think people would be very surprised by the kind of impact they can have on local politics - which also happen to be the politics that have the most direct impact on their lives.

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daishi55 • today at 3:39 PM

Those groups are representing people, and yes, in an ideal world, in which politicians simply represent their constituents, they would be unnecessary. In a democracy, public policy is supposed to reflect public opinion. Yet, there is endless political science research showing that public policy usually has very little to do with public opinion. That is because under capitalism, capital concentrates, and it then uses that concentrated capital to influence public policy through legalized corruption (lobbying). If whatever some megacorp is lobbying for were actually in the public interest, and public policy reflected public opinion, there would be no need for their lobbying. They lobby because their interests are not aligned with the public’s interest.

There’s also no union for “the public” which is a little unfortunate since that should basically just be the government.

So yes, TLDR, first restore democracy and then we can talk about whether we need unions anymore. Until that time however, they are the only mechanism the public has to try to wield some degree of influence comparable to that of capital.

In other words, yes, big oil lobbying bad and auto workers union good.

newswasboring • today at 2:22 PM

Are teachers unions, or environmental groups also "donating" to politician coffers?

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WillowWithAWand • today at 2:43 PM

All of this is missing the ultimate underlying truth that capitalism (at least as it is implemented here and now) is the problem here. Capitalism creates increasing levels of inequality over time while nominally providing "equal opportunity" to all.

So it may be more accurate to say that "a capitalist system that creates an increasing gap of wealth inequality and defines money as speech is a system that inherently tends toward corruption" but that's a bit wordy for a headline

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