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card_zero • today at 4:28 PM • 1 reply • view on HN

The reason I blame China is because their 32% is within the control of their authoritarian government, while the rest of the world has to wrangle awkward agreements between many countries, and political will in any individual country is sapped by awareness that only a small fraction of total emissions would be affected anyway, which wouldn't actually stop e.g. wildfires, so participation in a grand global plan is the only persuasive policy, but those grand global plans, such as they are, include agreement that China will carry on as usual.

Yes, I think who did what in the past is irrelevant to solving a problem now. What's that for, punishing sinners? Not the goal. We can decide that it's not morally China's fault (ha), but they'd still be the ones doing it, and it would still be hot (in the future, the only controllable part).

I can't comprehend this "last place" stuff. I think your idea - or ideology - is that the West is responsible (as in having agency) and blames China as a distraction. This flies in the face of the plain facts of where emissions come from and which entities have control over that, specifically the CCP and the CCP.


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triceratops • today at 4:40 PM

> The reason I blame China is because their 32% is within the control of their authoritarian government

And you believe this government will be able to order the population to stop burning fossil fuels, go back to living pre-industrial lives? Heck no.

That government was however able to order far-seeing investments in solar panel and battery manufacturing (done for national security, not climate, but who cares).

Even if China went 0 carbon, it wouldn't solve climate change because the other 69% of emissions would continue. Existing emissions will go on causing heating. Everyone has to make a change.

China for its part has done a ton of heavy lifting with its 31% of emissions. It manufactures abundant panels and batteries which make the transition cheap for everyone.

> Yes, I think who did what in the past is irrelevant to solving a problem now

You may think so, probably because you live in a rich country. But the people in developing countries asked to sacrifice in solving the problem do not.

If you move into a shared house with existing housemates, would you accept that you have to clean the already-disgusting bathroom prior to moving in because you have IBS and would use the bathroom more after moving in? You'd say "fuck no the people already living here messed it up".

That's what convincing developing countries to abandon fossil fuels at great personal cost is like. Make it cheap for them and they will do it. But if they see Westerners driving SUVs and flying everywhere, it's the same as your average Westerner's resentment of Elon Musk's private jet.

> they'd still be the ones doing it, and it would still be hot

Only 31% of it. Not even most of it. It would still be hot if they stopped.

> I can't comprehend this "last place" stuff.

It's the same as your "first place" stuff. If "most emissions" is terrible and everyone else is blameless, then "least emissions" is unalloyed good and everyone else is to blame.

> that the West is responsible (as in having agency) and blames China as a distraction

I think everyone is responsible and the West blames China as an excuse to do nothing (probably China does the same internally, I have no idea). Most emissions happen outside of China and are very much within the West's power to affect.

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