I don't know enough about the US, but for Europe this is 100% false! The first unions date back to the 18th century and they were an important part of the worker's movement in the 19th century. They absolutely played a crucial part in improving worker conditions during the industrial revolution and beyond.

> Jobs get nice when employers are competing over the same pool of employees.

Maybe in high-paying jobs that require high qualifications. For most jobs, especially the low-wage sector, this is absolutely not the case. There is no competition between employees if applicants are desperate and need to take any job they can.

Yeah not sure you’re right on this one. I’m talking strictly USA here, as that is where I live and my anecdotal experience.

The first official Union was formed in 1794, for journeyman cordwainers, I believe in New York.

The national labor union was formed in 1866 and is the first official call to congress to regulate to an 8-hour workday.

The first example I know of on a national scale that voluntarily promoted an 8 hour day, 40 hour work week was Ford in 1914 and realistically, that is exactly what you stated, an attempt to undercut other automakers / factories of the time for labor. Not because he was being altruistic.

I’m sorry you’ve had bad experiences with unions. I am certainly biased, because I grew up in a Union household and have been apart of them myself, but I’ve only had good experiences. Yeah, there are some bad eggs, admittedly, but I think collectively they have benefited the working person.

Historically, at the time of mass unionization there was but one major employer in many towns, so your cartel is needed to counter the monopoly power.

Prior to industrialization the closest you got to this was feudalism.

Society has settled on certain norms that shame certain behavior (6 or 7 day work weeks for example) but I’m sure unions are more agile in demanding certain things for groups that need more than those norms.

I am with you on the competitive workforce groups though. Large corporations don’t need to feed you three meals a day and bus you in from hours away but they do to entice workers. There are some economics at play that probably are more effective for certain groups of workers. The less skilled and more replaceable the job though, the more a business can take advantage because it’s a race to the bottom.

Without laws and unions, I fully believe some industries would still have slaves, horrible unsafe conditions, etc. Laws are probably more vital than unions IMHO

> Jobs get nice when employers are competing over the same pool of employees.

During an all hands where quarterly earnings were presented for a very large American company, the live audience were obviously employees.

The CFO came on stage and was very enthusiastic about the labor market "loosening". Employees were clapping. Unsure if because they didn't understand the meaning of that statement or because just to appear supportive of leadership.

I was thinking: they're talking about us, turkeys.

How do Employees advocate for themselves if not Unions? I've never heard any anti-union person give a good answers other than 'just trust the employer to be a good human' or 'wait until it gets bad enough that the market sorts it out' which is just laughable.