logoalt Hacker News

MSFT_Edgingtoday at 12:46 PM3 repliesview on HN

This person is either willfully ignorant, or an actual fascist attempting to blur the line.

This exact line of thought has been used for decades to subvert the actual history of the Nazi party and their co-operation with corporations, undermining of labor unions, assault on socialist groups via their brown shirts, etc.

This is a fascist talking point. It doesn't matter where the user possibly derived it from.

The "National Socialist" party was explicitly anti-socialist. Their talking points explicitly refuted class boundaries, and enforced "cultural" boundaries, to create the scapegoat of the Jews as the primary cause for societal turmoil.

Do not take this user seriously. Do not allow yourself to get into the weeds, they will not take any real discussion seriously. They are acting in bad faith.


Replies

pipestoday at 1:13 PM

That is a lot of assumptions and personal attacks based on a question that you haven't answered.

The soviets also actively clamped down on unions, were they not socialists either?

Edit: I'll let someone else make the point for me:

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/4kg34a/comme...

show 2 replies
breppptoday at 2:11 PM

Apart from the Socialist roots of the Nazi party (hence the name) and Fascism (Mussolini) , they have practiced a state planned economy which was far closer to Stalin's Soviet Union than to the United States

This doesn't mean the Nazis were not very much anti-communist, but subscribing Nazism to Capitalism is an extremely flat ideology-driven version of history

cmrdporcupinetoday at 2:00 PM

The libertarian / Randite strand of American hyper-capitalist ideology is ascendant and somewhat hegemonic in North American political education in schools and the like and it defines as "socialist" anything which involves "the government." To the point that we have people complaining in earnest that things Trump is doing that don't fit their Milton Friedman vibes are "socialist."

It deliberately strips the "social" part out of the ideological framing and replaces it with the state.

Which is also helped by the fact that "actual existing socialism" in the USSR etc did the same.

Also doesn't help that there has been effectively no organized socialist political presence in American politics (apart from the DSA pushing on the Democrats left wing, and Sanders I guess). This means that American politics reduces completely to a false "liberal" ("left" somehow) vs "conservative" dichotomy, both labels which don't describe anything about what they are anymore.

I've watched so many Americans get squirrely online when I've tried to draw a line on my own political viewpoint; no, I'm not liberal, I'm a socialist. This breaks their brains. Does not compute. Increasingly unfortunately here in Canada as well, partially as the NDP's unfortunate willingness to prop up Trudeau's Liberals when they were a minority.

I sometimes feel like we just need new, untainted, words.