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moonshot5today at 2:54 PM8 repliesview on HN

AOSP eng here;

I don't interact with Graphene or any of their folks at all; I'm just a distant observer like most folks here.

Still, I can't help but think that Graphene seems to want to complain about everything and anything that doesn't fit their niche use case. (As much as it seems beloved here, people that flash custom Android OSs are the very definition of niche users.)

My personal attitude to Graphene seems to get a bit more negative with each one of these "rants" and I doubt I'd go far out of my way to help them, even if I had exposure to them.


Replies

embedding-shapetoday at 3:10 PM

> that Graphene seems to want to complain about everything and anything that doesn't fit their niche use case

What would you want them to complain about instead? Of course they'll complain about that, just like Googlers will complain about things affecting their stock price, no one is surprised that people care about stuff they're personally involved in, it makes a lot of sense.

Now if these complaints weren't accurate, then I'd walk with you and feel a bit more negative with each piece. But the ones I've looked into, have been spot on, so who cares if it's for their specific niche? I expect them to care about their niche, that's why those people all work together in that organization in the first place.

Iolaumtoday at 3:08 PM

Even in the EU spyware use is prevalent (and i 'd guess everywhere else in the world). There have been many scandals of government authorized commercial spyware been deployed against journalists. Is it really that niche a mobile OS that tries to not be exploitable by them?

edenttoday at 3:26 PM

Perhaps they complain because that's literally the only way to get Google to take notice?

Let's be real, AOSP doesn't exist any more. Google have closed down nearly everything. All the development happens in private, you've stopped addressing bugs raised by the public, the source of patches are only infrequently released, device trees are gone.

Wouldn't you complain?

WarmWashtoday at 2:57 PM

When you are a minority you have to be incredibly loud for any chance to sway things your way.

Not saying whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, but just the nature of reality.

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Cider9986today at 3:54 PM

You might not like their style of speech, at least they care about their users. Maybe Google uses nice flowery language that makes the reader feel nice—IDC—actions speak louder than words.

Stock Pixel is an awful experience. So many useless notifications, popups, ads, privacy not by default.

Company: "We care about your privacy" meanwhile 1400 corporations they share data with

GrapheneOS: "There's zero telemetry in GrapheneOS"

The more you read the more you realize they are nearly always correct.

delichontoday at 3:39 PM

This doesn't read as a rant to me, but as calm and factual, regarding a genuine security regression that merits public attention. What is your interest in mischaracterizing it?

iamnotheretoday at 2:59 PM

Security shouldn’t be a niche use case. There’s a constant trickle of CVEs, and spyware vendors are known to abuse these exploits in their software. All this on devices that are reachable in the US through a text or MMS, sent to an easily located 10 digit number that isn’t easily changed. These are devices that people now use for all kinds of sensitive tasks!

Security should be the number one priority, frankly. Graphene has shown that this is possible, and they have tried multiple times to get Google to integrate their work.

mmoosstoday at 3:12 PM

I'm not an AOSP engineer, but that was my thought reading GOS's comments: Why be negative toward the people who you want help from? They don't need more stress in their day and wouldn't want to engage, with the promise of enjoying more of the same treatment. If it's consolation, much of their communication seems the same - it has nothing to do with AOSP or Google. :)

Communication is a challenging skill and not all good engineers are good at it. It's stressful to be in a role that demands lots communication if you feel you aren't good at it (I'm not speaking for GOS leaders - I don't know what they think).

Going out on a limb, hoping it helps - the most powerful single solution IME is compassion: Compassion toward yourself and toward others. They are engineers like you, trying to get through a stressful day like you, and they could use some pleasant interaction from someone who understands what it's like. You could use some of that too. Running GOS isn't easy, I'm sure.