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wrs • today at 3:51 PM • 3 replies • view on HN

Nobody likes to say this out loud, but because the US healthcare system is largely based on “fee for service” billing, it is true by definition that the sicker the patients are, the more profit the providers make. So incentives for actually making people healthier have to be imposed in indirect ways.

There are some pockets of “per capita” payment, where the provider gets a fixed amount per person and is thus encouraged to reduce treatment costs, which indirectly should encourage preventative care, but also encourages just refusing to treat people.

We could remove these weird constraints by making health care a government service rather than a highly contorted pseudo-market, but that would not be the American way. It has to at least look like a market, even if it’s an ineffective, inefficient, opaque, corrupt one.


Replies

myersj • today at 4:37 PM

> We could remove these weird constraints by making health care a government service rather than a highly contorted pseudo-market, but that would not be the American way. It has to at least look like a market, even if it’s an ineffective, inefficient, opaque, corrupt one.

It is still a market (and a single-payer one, ultimately) in these places, but it is not a government service. It is the best solution: the government funds the appropriate cost of care, the provider group is financially responsible for meeting it, and they are incentivized directly to get it right.

The left needs to stop shrieking about Medicare-for-all and the right needs to stop pretending like it can even spell healthcare. There are good solutions.

> but also encourages just refusing to treat people.

It categorically does not. It would be foolish to do so.

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longerthoughts • today at 4:35 PM

Completely agree with your characterization of the current system but why does making healthcare a government service necessarily lead to better outcomes vs current state or a more sensibly constrained market?

Seems obviously right in terms of total cost to the median patient (less obvious for individuals in higher tax brackets), so I'm not disputing that. More curious about incentives to improve care delivery for better long-term outcomes.

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TZubiri • today at 5:29 PM

> "fee for service"

> "per capita"

I don't quite get the difference, patients pay a fixed amount for insurance, hospitals charge "fee for service" to the insurance. Both systems coexist, it's not one or the other.

To be clear, I'm not suggesting changing the whole system, I think that's infantile sorry to be blunt, I'm proposing a more down to earth (and commercially appealing approach) of increasing the price (and thus financial incentives) of medical goods that have low cost but high health values.

My economic theory clearly isn't as strong, because how much should a CT scan and a pill be priced at relative to a heart attack response with a 1 week hospitalization and a bunch of work. Because the cost of a CT scan and a pill is low (100$), the value of it is high (50K$ lower bound), and the cost of treating a heart attack is clearly around 50K$, but the value of it is clearly lower than the preventive treatment (perhaps stochastically adjusted).

So should we be pricing by cost or pricing by value? The naïve approach is pricing by cost, so that everything is cheap, the first issue with this approach is that it disincentivizes research, which is why legal systems widely recognize patents, copyright and intellectual property.

I looked into Shkreli's case a bit deeper, and he was a stupid kid of course, but it's what comes to mind when thinking of 'raising prices' of medicine, there's not many faces to that idea.

That said, I'm not saying that prices SHOULD be hiked, just that I'm not convinced that medicine pricing should be cost based, or that it should be value based, or that some supply-and-demand principle would magically find a value in the middle. I'm just saying that it can be either way, and I just don't know which way it ought to be.

And ultimately, it's a decision that every actor in the industry can make, what they price their products and time at. And to reiterate my thesis, pricing your product as cheaply as possible might counterintuitively reduce it's impact, since there is no incentive for intermediaries (or even yourself) to work on it. So I'm not saying that prices should be maximalized either, just that the relationship between price and value contributed to society is not linear, if you price your medicine at 0, you go bankrupt, that's not helpful obviously, and evidently pricing a CT scan and a heart attack pill at 100$ is not cutting it either, hike that up.

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