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How the Turner twins are mythbusting modern technical apparel

99 pointsby greedolast Tuesday at 7:19 PM56 commentsview on HN

Comments

pinkmuffinereyesterday at 10:15 PM

> During their simulation of Mallory’s Everest expedition, the data showed that on summit night, the average body temperature difference between the twin in modern down and the twin in complicated layers of silk, wool, and gabardine was a staggering 1.8°C.

The human body self-regulates, and is pretty sensitive to dramatic temperature swings. So, conditioned on the fact that they both survived the adventure, we should expect their temperature differences to be relatively small. This doesn't mean the clothing is great, it means [their body] + [their clothing] is adequate.

Additionally, I'm not a doctor but 1.8 C is not small compared to normal human variation! Normal body temperature ranges between 36 and 37 C, a "high fever" starts around 39 C [0], and hypothermia is anything below 35 C [1]. The comfortable range of human temperature is 1 deg C, and the "outside of this is concerning" range is only 4 C wide. 1.8 C is quite big from that perspective.

[0] https://www.health.harvard.edu/diseases-and-conditions/treat...

[1] https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/hypothermia/s...

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jlduggeryesterday at 9:33 PM

> the data showed that on summit night, the average body temperature difference between the twin in modern down and the twin in complicated layers of silk, wool, and gabardine was a staggering 1.8°C. > “In a hundred years, you’ve gained—arguably—one degree of efficiency per 50 years,” Ross reveals.

Depending on where the baseline is, 1.8 degrees could be huge! But more importantly, heat dissapation is a non-linear function. The warmer you are relative to your environment, the more energy is lost. While Shackleton's kit forms a lower baseline, it probably makes sense to imagine how some imaginary perfect vacuum insulated sleeping bag would perform.

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jancsikayesterday at 11:02 PM

Key paragraph:

> The data proves that the gear of the past is capable, but it has a narrower operating window. If you stop moving in Mallory’s kit at 8,000 meters, you will freeze quickly. Modern gear buys you a safety margin if you become static.

jancsikayesterday at 11:05 PM

Important-- when they say "cotton" in the article they're talking about gabardine cotton as a water repellent layer.

Neither one of these dudes is wearing cotton base layers, midlayers, socks, etc. It's too slow to evaporate moisture which can cause blisters on feet and rapid drop of body temperature drop in cool/cold weather.

embedding-shapeyesterday at 9:25 PM

> Today, their biometrics are tracked by ingestible sensor pills that monitor core temperature from the inside out

I wonder if those are pills they've developed themselves, or if it's an existing product available to consumer?

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croisillonyesterday at 11:17 PM

nice pics, nice font, pity the text went through translopification

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obsidianbases1yesterday at 10:21 PM

I thought weight would be where the modern wear performed best.

More surprisingly, the footwear of yore was apparently lighter

XorNotyesterday at 9:31 PM

I feel like downplaying 1.8 degrees C of performance is a weird choice in the article.

1.8 degrees C is a huge temperature change in biology. Human bodies keep thermal equilibrium in a margin smaller then that.

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eagsalazar2today at 12:02 AM

I remember sleeping in old canvas tents - in the heavy rain - on boyscout camping trips around seattle as a kid. I remember waking up in a puddle, cotton lined bag soaked through, not being dry even after 12 hours of laying it out after the rain stopped.

By comparison my RIE UL2 is 100x, no 1000x better in every single way. Same for my 15 degree duck down mummy.

Are sweaters better now than then?? I don't know, maybe. But seriously, get out of here with the general notion that 19** is within a hundred miles of good modern backpacking gear.

About boots, unless you are in snow, boots are scam. Period full stop with whatever expansive definition you want to use. Comfy $30 sneakers from Big 5 are great. I do have some trail running shoes I use personally that cost me about $100. I'm sure they had great options 100 years ago.

ChrisMarshallNYyesterday at 9:52 PM

That's pretty cool. They talk about how getting period clothes basically required custom work.

Must be pricey.

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sneakyesterday at 10:21 PM

The idea that full grown identical twins are identical humans for purposes of analysis is also fundamentally flawed. Just because they share DNA and look the same doesn’t mean anything about their relative health, fitness, metabolic rates, etc.

dekhnyesterday at 11:28 PM

absolutely terrible writing.